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Transaxle Cooling
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TOPIC: Transaxle Cooling

Re: Transaxle Cooling 10 years ago #17574

  • AgRacer
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Ooooh goody, a words mean things debate. Everybody interprets these things differently and I live in this world at my job, so Ive seen how differently one person can read something from another.

When I read exterior, I interpret that the same as joeblow based on the way the term is used in other parts of the rules (look at what 17.1 talks about). I also read the rules to allow a duct through the unibody at the back of the car, on the floor, to an external cooler so long as it is no bigger than is needed to be effective. Cooling ducts in the quarter windows for that cooler are obviously written in as legal in 17.3.9.

I understand that this is supposed to be a simple add on as well, but the way the rule is currently written allows any cooler to be added, however there are still some problems. It doesn't specify what the scavenge and return points should be on the transaxle. Since it doesn't specifically allow drilling into the case of the transaxle to add these ports, I would say its not allowed based on the tone and latitude given elsewhere on other like items/catch all rules. Then again, it also doesn't say that I can use whatever drain and fill plug I want, so by that same logic, the easiest solution is also illegal (using ported plugs for scavenge/return).

Another thing I realized, only external pumps are allowed which makes the turbo mechanical pump/setup illegal.

The likely solution I am going to go with will be to modify my spare tire well as is allowed for people with the plastic tank (which I do). i will then just mount the cooler vertically off that surface along with the electric pump, filter, and thermostat utilizing the stock drain/fill plugs ported for scavenge/return. I think this will be enough.

It was my initial intent to try and source a cheap, effective kit that would be plug and play for most to use in the class, targeted in the $600 range. Since this is something that more are looking towards doing, it maybe worthwhile next season to talk about a standard kit sold by one merchant that would be the only allowed cooler kit. Many of the other Spec classes have some of these type kits that if you decide to use it, you have to use this one product.
J. Stanley
NASA-SE Region 944 Spec Series Director
Yellow #60

Re: Transaxle Cooling 10 years ago #17575

  • joeblow
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I do find the turbo setup being made illegal a little curious as it is by far the easiest for Spec guys to install. Most of us have been tearing up various gearboxes anyway to get LSDs and short 5ths and this is one more item that we could utilize cheaply.

Back to our discussion about rules interpretation...

I think the question of how to route the fluid from and back to the gearbox should be stated as X and Y or simply stated as 'open'. As I said before I have a hard time seeing any performance advantage by adding additional return points. Longevity I can say will be added which is better for the class. Cost on this is a factor but if 'open' then do what you want. I can spend lots of money needlessly but I have a set-up in mind that while perhaps not what RacerX intends to do is very simple and cheap.

My pump will be driven off the passenger side axle with a belt. The pickup will be the drain and the return will be either one (in the fill) or two (if allowed). The cooler will be under the car and air will come from below and exit below as well (no holes being cut anywhere for me). I might change my mind and go with the Tilton electric pump too but either way I am following the loose rules as written.
Old Racer!

Re: Transaxle Cooling 10 years ago #17578

  • RacerX
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RacerX wrote:
1.2 944-Spec is a restricted class. Therefore no modifications/changes are allowed unless specifically outlined in these rules.

I don't see in the rules where we can cut the floor to vent a cooler or drill holes in the transaxle for multiple oil return lines. Powers that be may see it otherwise but that is how I see it. The rule intent was to just cool the transaxle fluid, not make it a Borg like creature with oil lines running all over.
A simple electric pump that draws oil from the drain sends it through a cooler and returns it through the fill plug will suffice in keeping temps down. If you want to get fancy, add a thermostat and magnetic filter.


Sorry but I forgot to add this to my last post.

3 Format
These rules are not intended as guidelines; rather they shall serve as the complete set of rules,
and must be strictly followed. These rules and addendums specify the only modifications allowed.
If these rules do not expressly state a modification is allowed, it is prohibited.
Ken Frey #3 944-Spec MW Region

"Racing is life! Anything that happens before or after is just waiting."

Check out my build thread!!
www.944-spec.org/944SPEC/forum/race-car-...d/9155-new-car-build

Re: Transaxle Cooling 10 years ago #17579

  • AgRacer
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RacerX wrote:
Sorry but I forgot to add this to my last post.

3 Format
These rules are not intended as guidelines; rather they shall serve as the complete set of rules,
and must be strictly followed. These rules and addendums specify the only modifications allowed.
If these rules do not expressly state a modification is allowed, it is prohibited.


This was the catch all that I was referencing in my last post. Unlike in the Engine oil cooler ruling which references the stock turbo setup, there is no comparison to an acceptable way to of accomplishing transmission oil cooling.

So based on your logic and a strict interpretation of the catch all rule, since it doesn't state how you can scavenge and return oil, only that you can add any external oil COOLER and PUMP, you therefore have no way to actually accomplish transmission oil cooling.

The alternative interpretation is to say that since it does say ANY external transmission oil cooler is allowed, you are therefore allowed to accomplish that via ANY means so long as all items are external to the transmission.

Not trying to be a pit lane lawyer, I promise...
J. Stanley
NASA-SE Region 944 Spec Series Director
Yellow #60

Re: Transaxle Cooling 10 years ago #17580

  • RacerX
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I think it would have been common sense to use the fill and drain plug and not make things more complicated or read into the rules, after all, this class is not meant to be an engine builder or innovator’s class. If joeblow wants to spend big bucks on drilling holes and installing cooling jets on his transaxle, what harm does that have? Some might say that he has an unfair competitive advantage.
Ken Frey #3 944-Spec MW Region

"Racing is life! Anything that happens before or after is just waiting."

Check out my build thread!!
www.944-spec.org/944SPEC/forum/race-car-...d/9155-new-car-build

Re: Transaxle Cooling 10 years ago #17583

  • joeblow
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The ONLY competitive advantage having multiple returns would be is that my tranny is less likely to grenade on the track which would be an advantage I will give you that!

By the way your 'common sense' is an interpretation of the rules which is what I am doing as well. You have a system in mind that is using an external electric pump and using the drain and fill ports on the tranny, I get that. However my plan using an external mechanical pump and the drain port with any number of return ports as I so desire is no less an interpretation on the rules than your system. Common sense as a term here is meaningless.

RacerX wrote:
I think it would have been common sense to use the fill and drain plug and not make things more complicated or read into the rules, after all, this class is not meant to be an engine builder or innovator’s class. If joeblow wants to spend big bucks on drilling holes and installing cooling jets on his transaxle, what harm does that have? Some might say that he has an unfair competitive advantage.
Old Racer!
Last Edit: 10 years ago by joeblow.
Moderators: joepaluch, tcomeau, KLR
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