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2019 Rules Thread
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TOPIC: 2019 Rules Thread

Re: 2019 Rules Thread 1 year, 10 months ago #22179

  • tcomeau
  • Moderator
  • Posts: 287
Jason, sounds like you're working with bad data.

The 10.2:1 pistons increase in compression can be matched by using the lower comp pistons and shaving the head more. Low comp pistons and a head shaved to 22.62 mm will get you competitive HP. Proven.
Don't search craigslist or ebay. They don't speak our language or know our parts. Go to 944 specific guys like Mark Pleiman, Elliot Grafton, John Graves, or myself.

You can't be competitive without a short 5th. You can be competitive without an LSD. Proven.
We need to allow all racers equal access to equal HP/TQ, not equal access to 88 pistons, or a replacement part. We have equal HP now with STOCK pistons. Proven.

By all accounts, Dirks built solid, legal, competitive engines. $10K is not outlandish at all for a well-built 944 Spec race car with a good engine. There's no "designer" engine mark up there so I'm not sure where you were going with that comment. The only times I've seen junkyard engines installed were when racers had no choice due to schedule or budget constraints. None ended well. Again, not clear on your reason for that comment.
Tim Comeau
SoCal 944 Spec #22 since Feb 2003.
Let's keep building it!

Re: 2019 Rules Thread 1 year, 10 months ago #22180

  • rd7839
  • Endurance Racer
  • Posts: 625
Hey Jason, I didn't mean my response to sound so snippy.

Here's my point; There is a small number of high compression pistons from the factory out there. If someone is willing to spend the time and effort and money to find them for a fraction of gain, they will still be a small minority and just the cross we will have to bear. If aftermarket pistons that add horsepower(and cost) are readily available they will become the must have part and costs go up for all.

Plus, it will be so easy to cheat, or not even cheat but build to the letter of the law but get better performance with aftermarket stuff. It will be incredibly hard to police.

Any race engine builder knows that pistons are not as simple as they look. Minor differences like wrist pin location and size, distance between rings, material and so much more will make big differences with small changes. Those changes will be very minute and expensive to police.

I don't want to race in a series with professionally built and tuned cars against my homebuilt special with factory parts.

If you keep it factory you keep it more equal, aftermarket and the arms race is on. There are already classes for the 944 where you can do that. If you can't find parts for our series move a little up and you will have a home.

btw, just came back from Tennessee a few weeks ago and on my drive from Atlanta to Knoxville I saw 1 944 for sale for $800 obo in the Chattanooga area that said running when parked and from I75 I saw another rotting away in a field so they are out there.

Re: 2019 Rules Thread 1 year, 10 months ago #22181

  • cbuzzetti
  • Endurance Racer
  • 944 Spec = The best racing on the planet
  • Posts: 1192
I had lunch with Jon Milledge today.

His take on sleeving is this. You can use an aluminum sleeve or steel. The aluminum one will have to be coated with Alumasil.

The steel sleeve requires the block to be heated up to 280 degrees and the steel sleeve needs to be cooled to get a proper fit.

Jon prefers to use a sleeve that has a ridge extending outwards from upper edge (alu or steel) the proper machining must be done to the block to make this work. This eliminates the possibility of the sleeve moving up or down.

You can keep the sleeve from moving without the ridge if when machining the block you do not go past the end of the bore. Jon does not prefer this way because the cylinder wall is thin at the bottom of the bore. He builds turbo engines up to 725 HP so the ridge method may not be required for spec motors.

He felt that a set of pistons/rings and sleeves should be under $1000. Machining will be extra. Pistons can be made in any configuration (compression ratio) you want.

I dont think we should jump into this just yet be we should be having this discussion and doing research to find the correct way to get this done for the future. Good blocks will only get harder to source.
2018 NASA 944Spec National Champ
2018 NASA ST5 P2 944 Nationals COTA
2017 NASA 944Spec WSC P3
2016 NASA PTD-944 WSC P2
2015 NASA GTS1 Western Champion
2014 NASA 944Spec Western Champion
2013 NASA 944Spec So-Cal Regional Champion
2013 NASA 944Spec National P3
2010 NASA GTS-1 National Champion
2010 NASA 944Spec National P3
2010 NASA So-Cal 944Spec Regional Champion
2009 NASA 944Spec National Champion

Re: 2019 Rules Thread 1 year, 10 months ago #22182

  • johntorg
  • Comp School
  • Posts: 27
These anti aftermarket pistons arguments ignore the fact that we are still using 30 year old pistons in our engines and many engine builders won't do it. We have a HP cap and dynos at the races to control performance. BTW, I have a couple of sets of 88 pistons and would still greatly prefer to go with aftermarket ones, when I build my next engine.

The idea of aftermarket pistons becoming a "must have" doesn't make any sense. No one is going to tear down a good running engine to swap pistons for minimal, if any gain. They will install aftermatket pistons when it comes to rebuild time.

At the 944Cup Nationals I borescoped 7 cars and only found only one with early pistons. Maybe 88 pistons are already must have.

Re: 2019 Rules Thread 1 year, 10 months ago #22183

  • rd7839
  • Endurance Racer
  • Posts: 625
How about this, aftermarket pistons only in the low compression configuration and only as needed to replace damaged ones, maximum 2 per engine. The other 2 have to be factory.

If the pistons are the same then this should be viable but I hear the argument coming which will only prove that aftermarket pistons WILL make a difference.

Re: 2019 Rules Thread 1 year, 10 months ago #22184

  • rd7839
  • Endurance Racer
  • Posts: 625
So a quick check of Picknpull showed a couple of cars available. I usually check once a month and there's most always a new car around here but right now it only shows 3 nationwide, 2 944's and 1 924S.

The best part is a motor with wiring harness is $189 and aluminum wheels $25.

So the argument that these parts are hard to find is not true. for $400 I can have a rebuildable motor and a spare set of wheels. A few bucks more and I can have a fender or door or 2. Need a spare trans? we got ya covered for the price of a decent meal for 2.

Are the motors always good? Seem to be out here in the west, not sure why the east coast is harder on cars. My head came from them as did my crank. I gave away 2 of the blocks and I know of one still running for sure
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