I think your issue was hte 20 heat cycle R888. My first set of R888 ran 13-14 before they simply failed to grip.

My second set just turned over 20 hear cycles. They seemed ok at 15, but 16-20 were OK at best. I just ran them on Saturday on a track I rarely run. So comparing lap times is tough. First session they seems really slick. 2nd one I picked up 2 seconds, but was still slower than Austin.

It could have been the old tires, or maybe just had I not driven in 3 months or that I last went to that track in 2-3 years ago. (Austin ran it in April).

Anyway it was just a test day I wanted to shake cob webs out. That I did. I also ran lower pressures than normal down to 38 hot. Results did not change and tire seemed ok. So in the end they did what they needed to do which was not burn off my tires for National.

As for racing lap times... At PIR I have run equal to worn RA-1 times when my R888 are fresh. So this is why I consider the issues to be one of life vs lap times.

joepaluch wrote:


Right, that's mostly why I posted that here... R888's die around 20 heat cycles, and RA-1's are still competitive after 30 heat cycles and various abuse. I probably could have been faster on new R888's than I was on those trashed RA-1's, but the fact that R888's just cycle out like that is really bad for a low-cost spec class like ours, and the RA-1's have certainly proved themselves.

I had wanted to use those R888's for Nationals since I still have plenty of tread on them, and just use the old RA-1's for practice, but it looks like I'd be shooting myself in the foot by doing that. I might have to do the opposite now. I can't see myself buying new tires for just Nationals, since whatever we buy will be worthless for 2010... R888's wont last into 2010, and 225/50-15 RA-1's likely wont be legal (and on principal, they really shouldn't be, for several reasons).

I spoke to some Spec Miata and CMC drivers this weekend... The CMC guys came right out and said that they only have 6 cars at Nationals this year because of the spec tire nonsense, specifically the surprise April 1st announcement that RA-1's would also be legal, after everyone had trusted NASA and bought R888's. It's no secret that Nationals is hurting for participation across the board.

A number of the the Spec Miata guys don't really care too much about spec tire issues, because they just use whatever tire they like. I'm sure they'll have enough sense to be on legal tires at Nationals, but regionally it's not uncommon at all to see some Spec Miatas on Hoosiers, V710's, etc., in both NASA and SCCA. I've seen it myself, more than once. Even when someone wins or sets a track record on Hoosiers, they wont protest it, and will just speak to the driver individually if anything at all. And if the person doesn't win, then they don't seem to even care at all. It's apparently their way of rebelling against NASA/SCCA management, but not everyone is completely on board, so of course there's drama.

Let's get this tire business resolved in our group, so we don't end up like them! I really want a spec tire, but 225/50-15 prices got jacked up, R888's clearly aren't in our best interests, and 225/50-15 RA-1's are a limited supply (plus we'd be sending entirely the wrong message by keeping them legal). 205/50-15 RA-1's are the only reasonable Toyo option at this point. Or, we go find another supplier who is a better fit for our cost and tire longevity needs...

There is no way . NONE at all that we will be on the R888 after this year. Yes you can burn them up and use what you have but they are out for 944-spec.

SvoChuck wrote:


Are 225/50-15 RA-1's going back into production? Last I heard, they weren't and we are buying from a finite supply. The other problem I have with keeping the 225 size legal, aside from the cost, is that it further destroys our/NASA's credibility, as well as directly rewards the people who bought new RA-1's this year for the purpose of exploiting the situation to get a competitive advantage. I have mixed feelings about that last part, because I also know several people who bought new 225 RA-1's strictly for budget reasons... NASA really put us in a no-win situation there.

But if 205/50-15 RA-1's are competitive with, or faster than, 225/50-15 RA-1's, then everything could work out alright...

Would have been nice if we had a set of 205 ra1's this weekend ... Sorry that did not work out.

Since I really only have run PCA events, I tend to lurk about here more than I post, but thought I would toss in some anecdotal information from an experiment that I was sort of forced to run at the PCA Brainerd “Loonacy Race” a couple weeks ago. At some point in the past couple race weekends, some useless individual decided that he/she would walk off with 1 of my mounted race tires, phone dial and all (R888). This left me with sort of a dilemma for the races, as what I had in the truck at the time were 4 heavily used RA1’s (Approx 20 cycles from full tread depth), what I thought was 4 lightly used R888s (5 heat cycles from shaved depth) now only 3, and two spare RA1’s. (10 heat cycles). I was more than a little worried that the RA1’s would not make it through a whole race, and having a tire die in T1 or T2 at Brainerd could quite possibly lead to the same for the driver. So, my maniac buddy and I decided that we’ll mount up one of the spare RA1’s and run it as the 4th tire to the set of 3 888s’ that I had left (I’m nothing if not foolish, and perhaps cheap). Left fronts tend to take the most abuse at Brainerd so we decided that was a reasonable place to put the lone RA1, and off I go. Since we are allowed to run both tires, my car has sort of split the difference in setups between what would favor the RA1, and what would favor the 888s. So no setup changes to speak of, but we did set the tire pressures to what I found suited each particular tire. I completed the race without major incident, but holy handful my usually mild mannered baby was loose as a goose on ex-lax. Not one to the trifled with, we decided that this being “Loonacy” weekend we would swap front to back for the second race. Again no major incidents, but just the opposite in balance characteristics. The same car that 1 hour earlier I was chasing the rear end all over the track, now would not turn. If the grip level of the 888s truly are superior to the RA1, doesn’t anyone else find it strange that a single RA1 could demonstrate evidence to the contrary such as this?

PCA is going to follow whatever rule changes, if any, are made here, and I will abide by and run whatever spec tire is decided upon. But you can cast my vote (If I get one) for the switch back to RA1’s be they 205’s or 225’s. I’ve run the 888s for two seasons now, tried all the setup and pressure changes recommended here, and have just never been able to come to grips with the lack of performance offered by the 888s.