To get back on topic, so far I have that Toyos are available in around $165$170 shaved. The RM guys seem to seeing higher prices, maybe $10-15 per tire including shaving. For the short term, use this info to negotiate better prices locally, or order them in from out of state to make your point. Yes shipping is more, but no tax should help. Also we can work regionally to buy in larger quantities to help.

I now have a better handle on Toyo prices nationwide, which is what I needed. If someone gets a better deal, post it up!

Tires are a petroleum based product. The price is going to go up. Just like fuel, food etc.

Racing is not for the financially challenged. If you cannot afford to wad up your car and throw it in the trash can you should not be racing.

A new set of tires lasts me 3 full weekends. At $700 thats $233/weekend of racing. If the Nitto is $500 per set then the savings per weekend is $70.

Most of us spend more than that in fuel just to get to the track.

In AZ and RM they share the Toyo Bucks. I am not sure why this is a problem for you Chris. You are a benefactor of this program.

Is there something you are not sharing with us?

cbuzzetti wrote:


Well, I'll check to see if I can find any ads for NT-01 prices 2 or 3 years ago, but I don't think they've increased 25%. I do know that the ultra high performance street tires I buy haven't increased 25% in price since 2007. Plus, I don't have to shave these tires, giving me an additional 80 dollars a set back.

$70 a weekend may be a drop in the bucket for you, but for many of us in the RM region, that's a significant savings. Racing 6 events per year would net me $420 dollars. That's not chump change for my racing budget. This is a budget racing series, not an engineering series like AI or GTS. Keeping things inexpensive is part of the goal.

While we share Toyo bucks in the RM region, it doesn't make up for the difference in price. Trust me, I've done the math.

No one is hiding anything. There isn't a lot of satisfaction using Toyo tires in the RM region due to the chronic shortages and continuing price increases.

I understand rules stability and all of that, but this does look like a near drop-in replacement for RA-1's at a lot cheaper price.

Of course, anybody can destroy their race car and it wouldn't be the end of the world. This is a hobby, no one depends on their race car for anything other than racing. The point is, how can we maintain the spirit of the class, which is low cost, equal racing. Save a few bucks on tires, GREAT, a few more on motors, FANTASTIC, it adds up. I don't understand your point, just because you spend x here means you should spend x there?

It doesn't make sense to spend more money to competitively race in a class of slow, 25 year old, fake porsches, especially when there are cheaper and faster options. Almost nobody races these cars cause we love 944s, we do it because we want a low cost and fair race. We need to be mindful of "cost creep", in all aspects of the class.


I'm not suggesting that we must switch to nittos, rather, pointing out how a comparable tire in every aspect, even made by the "same" (sortof) company, is significantly cheaper. Perhaps, this can be used as a leveraging tool for Eric to bring up when he goes talks to the natl office?

It just seems to me that we and other classes have created a mini monopoly on Toyo where they are producing less and increasing prices on the product to maximize profits and minimize surplus. They can get away with it because there is no competition to equalize the market. Toyo can charge pretty much as high as the consumers are willing to bear, that being us and the many race groups that must buy toyos (we aren't the only ones with this problem). Yes, I can afford to buy tires at that price if I have to, it just seems like I shouldn't have to be paying that much when there are cheaper/ better options that are excluded from our market. Petrol prices will increase tire production cost, but it still doesn't justify the high price we are seeing.
Maybe I'm wrong, maybe it really does cost toyo more than nitto and other companies to make their tires and they are charging us the fair price cause they are just that nice?

The price with the contingency is fine when you have 5, 7, 10 cars, but if that's the only reason to justify the price than it is pretty shortsighted for the growth of the class, unless 944 spec is happy always being 2nd to spec miata and we want small fields.



What point are you trying to make? Yes, we do share our toyo money in the RM region, No, it's not enough to justify the cost of tires.
Do you share your contingency?

/rant
trying to stay on topic.

While cost is definitely a factor, another thing that also may need to be addressed is availability.

During my short time here and my own investigations for finding sources over the past year, this looked like it could be an issue. If the tires were $40 cheaper, but I cant get them, it doesn't do me much good.

Everything I have read and seen tell me the RA-1 is a great tire, and I believe for the Spec series...this is the perfect tire to spec, performance wise. But it appears you do have to go to a specialized tire dealer to get them, if they are not back ordered. I don't want to see any rules changes..stable rules are absolutely important. Not saying the calss should move to the NT-01.

That being said, the NT-01 is supposed to be the same compound as the RA-1, is cheaper, and appears to be widely available (and marketed on a wider basis as well). Just curious as to why that is. Simply a supply and demand equation? Or are they discounting those tires to gain market share?

No we don't currently share our contingencys. Im not for socialised racing. I feel you have to earn your spot on the podium with hard work and lots of hours in and under the car. Those who have done that should reap their rewards.

Toyo pays out based on number of cars and finish position. I don't make the format Toyo does. Remember 09 Nats?

There is less motivation for the 5th place driver to get better if he is getting paid the same Toyo Bucks as the 1st place driver.IMO