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Rule Change Requests for 2016
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TOPIC: Rule Change Requests for 2016

Rule Change Requests for 2016 4 years, 1 month ago #19809

OK guys, time to hear out RCR's for next years rules. We'll keep this open through the end of the month, and then get the new rules, if any, hashed out.

As always, please bear in mind that rules changes need to be cost effective to existing cars, as well as new builds, and the burden of proof is on why the new rule is needed, not justifying the existing rule - rules stability is key here!

Stay tuned for a big announcement in about a week, as well!
Eric Kuhns

National Director Emeritus

2007, & 2008 National Champion
2011, 2012 2nd

Re: Rule Change Requests for 2016 4 years, 1 month ago #19812

  • AgRacer
  • OFFLINE
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 712
I propose opening up the wheel allowance to include any wheel weighing more than 15 pounds in the stock offset consistent with every other Spec racing series around us.

BLUF: Cookie cutters are increasingly hard to find and average ~$450 per set to get and usually need refreshing to look half way decent if they are usable at all. Racing on 35 year old wheels is not the best option and all other classes have a minimum weight open wheel rule with great success. New form flowed Jongbloed Racing wheels in a 15x7 stock offset and minimum weight of 15 pounds can be had for $636.



Pros

Introduces a new wheel which is readily available through a vendor, not playing the lottery on craigslist or ebay
Improves safety as it allows us to not race on 35 year old cast wheels
Updates look of the class
Still allows those that want to run existing stock wheels the ability to

Cons

It is a rule change
Cost of a new wheel is ~$60 greater than a stock used wheel

Safety

From a safety standpoint, racing on 35 year old cast wheels isn’t the best option. It likely isn’t a factor MOST of the time, as is evident by how many cars run successfully on the stock wheels. BUT, many consider wheels to be a consumable item. Strict guidance from race wheel manufacturers say that racing wheels should be replaced about every 2 years. I think the stress our cars put through the wheel given the tire and suspension allow them to last much longer, but I would rather air on the side of caution allowing an improvement in safety rather than wait for a fatigue failure on track which can cause unknown amount of damage. Purchasing new wheels means you know what the life of the wheel has been. In large part, we don’t know with the used stock wheels. Most are likely bent, and depending on which used Porsche supplier you talk to, they won’t resell wheels because of how many they see bent.

Supply

Cookie cutters are getting increasingly hard to find for those of us that run early offset. Phone dials are still readily available, but the supply of cookie cutters online is slim to none leaving racers to barter their stash between each other. If we want to grow the class nationally, we need to address some of the lingering supply issues and wheels are one of them. Few if any cookie cutters exist on craigslist nationally (use SearchTempest) and ebay maintains about a set available at a time (2 sets currently available at $889 and $1899). Some on ebay charge a premium because they are “vintage” and price a set of 4 over what a new set of Jongbloed wheels would cost. Add to the fact that the VW crowd likes cookie cutters and some of the 911 crew are going back and it is understandable why it is hard to find cookie cutters. I have had less than desirable results finding cookie cutters anywhere around the eastern half of the country. The ones I do find are a crap shoot to be straight, undinged, and usually need paint/powder coating to make look half way decent.

The last full set I bought off ebay were $450 and 1 wasn’t even useable with a severe gouge in the lip. Phone dials seem to be easier to find. Those of us that take the time to powder coat the stock wheel to improve appearance are looking at another $50-100 per wheel.

Performance

Both cookie and phone dials, as I have weighed them, are just a tad over 15 pounds. This weight is hard to get consistent based on 30+ years of road grime, wheel weights, paint chips, etc. Best case is that there are 2-4 ounces of difference between the Cookie and Phone Dial where the Cookie is 15.2 and the Phone is 15.4. I priced out a new set of Jongbloed Racing wheels through Phils Tire Service at $636 for brand new and flow formed with a minimum weight of 15 pounds. Numerous cars are successful in both offsets proving that no one suspension is the must have setup. I am also not convinced that the difference in wheel weights between the phone and cookie are worth anything along with the difference in geometry between the two given our basic shock/spring/tire setup to begin with. If you are the one driver that can take advantage of the better late offset suspension geometry then you shouldn’t be running 944 Spec anyways.

Appearance

This will improve the appearance of the class updating the look of the cars to match the other race cars in the paddock improving the marketability and attractiveness to new, prospective racers. New racers have easy access to a safe, good looking wheel right off the bat.

Rule currently reads:

15.9 Rims
Only 15 x 7 inch ATS (Cookie Cutter) or “Phone Dial” stock wheels with offsets of 23.3 or 52.3 mm are allowed. Steel lug nuts must be used. Wheel spacers are allowed as long as the maximum track width is not exceeded.

Proposed new rule:

15.9 Rims
Only 15 x 7 inch, one piece wheels with offsets of 23 or 52mm are allowed and a minimum weight of 15 pounds as well as the stock 15 x 7 inch “Cookie Cutter” (ET23.3) or “Phone Dial” (ET52.3) wheel. Steel lug nuts must be used. Wheel spacers are allowed as long as the maximum track width is not exceeded. All four wheels must dimensionally match.
J. Stanley
NASA-SE Region 944 Spec Series Director
Yellow #60
Last Edit: 4 years, 1 month ago by AgRacer.

Re: Rule Change Requests for 2016 4 years, 1 month ago #19819

Allow welding of bumper shocks

It is becoming difficult to find good bumper shocks for a reasonable price and it is a minor PITA to change them. Allowing welding would solve this.
Jim Richmond
Capt Squid
The following user(s) said Thank You: reflexr

Re: Rule Change Requests for 2016 4 years, 1 month ago #19824

  • RacerX
  • OFFLINE
  • Endurance Racer
  • Posts: 351
Remember the rim fiasco CMC had a few years back?? Don't want to go there!!
If you change the rim/wheel rules better make sure you take care so we don't
end up like that.
Ken Frey #3 944-Spec MW Region

"Racing is life! Anything that happens before or after is just waiting."

Check out my build thread!!
www.944-spec.org/944SPEC/forum/race-car-...d/9155-new-car-build

Re: Rule Change Requests for 2016 4 years, 1 month ago #19825

  • RacerX
  • OFFLINE
  • Endurance Racer
  • Posts: 351
capt squid wrote:
Allow welding of bumper shocks

It is becoming difficult to find good bumper shocks for a reasonable price and it is a minor PITA to change them. Allowing welding would solve this.


Quit bump drafting!!
Ken Frey #3 944-Spec MW Region

"Racing is life! Anything that happens before or after is just waiting."

Check out my build thread!!
www.944-spec.org/944SPEC/forum/race-car-...d/9155-new-car-build

Re: Rule Change Requests for 2016 4 years, 1 month ago #19826

CMC rim fiasco?
Eric Kuhns

National Director Emeritus

2007, & 2008 National Champion
2011, 2012 2nd
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